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 Post subject: Physical ailments due to horn playing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:59 am 
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Hiya folks,

Just thought I'd take kind of a quick survey to see how likely it is some problems I've developed recently could be due to horn playing.
I've started playing and practicing a bit more recently and coincidentally (?) have developed the following problems:

1) L radial wrist pain-- symptoms grossly matching DeQuervain's Tenosynovitis. I've been wearing an immobilizer for about 3 weeks and went through a course of 6 iontophoresis treatments (local dexamethasone) but I haven't licked it. First thought it might be a joint thing, and still not sure.


2) Arthritis? of the tip of my longest finger in the right hand. My index and long finger on the right have deviated toward the pinky side for years, but this pain seemed to start one day to the next. On most days the whole finger hurts when trying to make a fist, but my range of motion does not appear limited.

Do these problems sound familiar to anyone?

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Physical ailments due to horn playing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:37 am 
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Sorry to hear of your problems.

While not medically qualified to comment on your issues, I suppose if you are playing more, both hands are holding up your horn for longer periods. One possible way to find out if this is the cause of the pain in your left wrist is to try (in the short term at least) an alternative method of supporting the instrument. Check the PipStick:

http://eastop.net/?p=637

I believe there may be other similar devices.

As regards the right hand problem, I can't believe horn-playing has much, if anything to do with it. The deviation you speak of is typical of some cases of arthritis. Just putting your hand in the bell won't affect that, surely, unless your fingers are taking the weight of that side of the instrument, in which case your hand position is wrong.

Best of luck in getting these matters dealt with.


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 Post subject: Re: Physical ailments due to horn playing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Thanks for the quick response! Intersting device. I seem to do OK when sitting in rehearsal, but I mostly stand to practice at home (sitting doesn't agree with me due to low back issues.)
In terms of 'medically qualified'-- wasn't really looking for medical advice-- just wanted to see if others have similar problems as the sample of horn players I have contact to these days is pretty small.
Re: the deviation of my R 2-3 fingers-- absolutely no doubt it's caused by holding up the bell, and I also don't doubt that if most users here hold their hands up and compare they'll notice the same thing. It's the distal interphalangeal joint pain that I'm asking about here . . .
Thanks for any further replies.

Observer wrote:
Sorry to hear of your problems.

While not medically qualified to comment on your issues, I suppose if you are playing more, both hands are holding up your horn for longer periods. One possible way to find out if this is the cause of the pain in your left wrist is to try (in the short term at least) an alternative method of supporting the instrument. Check the PipStick:

http://eastop.net/?p=637

I believe there may be other similar devices.

As regards the right hand problem, I can't believe horn-playing has much, if anything to do with it. The deviation you speak of is typical of some cases of arthritis. Just putting your hand in the bell won't affect that, surely, unless your fingers are taking the weight of that side of the instrument, in which case your hand position is wrong.

Best of luck in getting these matters dealt with.

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Yamaha 863


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 Post subject: Re: Physical ailments due to horn playing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Also-- I guess I can't expect everyone here to know what DeQuervain's is-- it's actually a tendonitis of one of the thumb extensors, not a wrist extensor.

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 Post subject: Re: Physical ailments due to horn playing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:51 pm 
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"Re: the deviation of my R 2-3 fingers-- absolutely no doubt it's caused by holding up the bell, and I also don't doubt that if most users here hold their hands up and compare they'll notice the same thing."

I hope I'm not making an absolute fool of myself here, but I find this extraordinary.

Why are your fingers holding up the bell? The standard right-hand position, as shown in Farkas and elsewhere, supports the bell on three main points: the two knuckles of the thumb and the main knuckle where the index finger joins the hand (ie joint between the metacarpal and proximal phalange). None of the fingers themselves should actually support anything - they rest against the side of the bell opening.

Maybe I've put my finger (sorry!) on the problem!


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 Post subject: Re: Physical ailments due to horn playing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:01 pm 
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I used to have slightly different but similar issues (which were exacerbated when I played on a heavy triple horn!)...
Several things in combination have solved the problem for me:

(1) Adopting a good playing posture...

There's a good article on left hand position here:
http://www.osmun.com/reference/lefthand.htm

For right hand position, see Farkas and/or other standard texts + Observer's comments above.
I would add that for the right wrist to cope with supporting the horn, the right hand fingers need to be roughly vertical.
It sounds like your right wrist might be rotated anticlockwise from this position?

After finding the right posture, review regularly in practice to avoid forming bad habits.

(2) Getting the right instrument:

Some horn designs have the valve levers too far away from the mouthpiece receiver for the left forearm to be able to become vertical enough to support the horn in a relaxed manner.

Some horn designs have the bell too far away from the mouthpiece receiver, or at too wide an angle with respect to the leadpipe, for the right forearm to be able to adopt a comfortable position.

How heavy is your horn?
There are musical as well as ergonomic advantages in using lighter instruments.
After comparing lots of horns, 2.5 kg seems a good upper limit IMHO.
Quite a few double horns and most triples are heavier than this.

(3) Wrist tendon strengthening exercises - search online or talk to yoga experts.

(4) Analyse other things you do that might also contribute to the problem.
eg: if you work at computers a lot, check the ergonomics of your setup, alternate weekly between left and right handed mice, etc etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Physical ailments due to horn playing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:00 pm 
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Jiame wrote:
Also-- I guess I can't expect everyone here to know what DeQuervain's is-- it's actually a tendonitis of one of the thumb extensors, not a wrist extensor.


Hi,
You might consider consulting an Alexander practitioner (practitioner of the Alexander Technique, not player of an Alexander horn...) to identify how you might work on your posture. I just compared my hands and I see no distortion in the fingers on the right one; perhaps I don't practice enough. I do have a dent in my left little finger from the finger hook though.

Tom


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